More Than a Sport: Ben Fitzsimmons on Climbing, Purpose, and Refugees Rock

Ben Fitzsimmons from Refugees Rock shares his profound connection to climbing. Ben highlights his work with Refugees Rock, a programme that provides free climbing sessions for asylum seekers. We discuss the importance of access to climbing for diverse groups and the role of community support in enhancing the climbing experience. 

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About your host:

Mel Reeve is an experienced writer, casual climber and enthusiast, bringing her knowledge and passion to the podcast. With a background in writing, copywriting and content creation, Mel is dedicated to sharing the diverse stories and perspectives that shape the climbing community.

Transcript

Welcome to the podcast, Ben. I'm really excited to have you here to talk about your climbing and your work with Refugees Rock. But just to get started, could you tell us a bit about what climbing means to you and how you found the sport? Wow. You've gone forever with that, couldn't you? What does climbing mean? So what climbing means to me is I went climbing once and then I decided to do it for the rest of my life and that I would make it a very defining characteristic about myself.

when people ask me what do do I just say I'm a climber and that is like a nice coverall that's what I am now. I don't think I'm a human I'm like I'm a climber that's what climbing means to me. I was recommended by a friend actually who did it on and off in his own spare time. I've always had like an interest in in fitness and I used to run quite a lot and then I found that running don't offend people but okay I'll say I don't actually like running it turns out I don't actually like running.

So I needed something else to do and I found going to the gym to be quite boring with no kind of purpose behind it, I guess. For me anyway, it seemed like a directionist thing. And then I tried climbing on the recommendation of a friend. He knew I was as fit as I could be. And it was just a nice fit climbing really for ticking boxes for like physical fitness and turns out mental well-being as well. And how long ago was that? How long have you been climbing? God.

And that's another thing, isn't it? with COVID, like time doesn't mean anything anymore, it? When did that, where was that? How long ago was that? How old am I? So roughly, I think I've been climbing for about 10 years now. Okay. So a good amount of time then, the kind of COVID years. Yeah. But like during COVID, I was living with a couple of friends and we managed to build a little climbing wall in our backyard. So we kept ourselves a bit entertained with that. We also like climbed the back of the house.

turned it into a bit of a route, like climbed in through the bathroom window and stuff like that. It was strange time though, isn't it? And then everything we did during those lockdown times was dedicated towards like training for climbing. When we were let loose, we'd be ready to go. What kind of climbing do you gravitate towards? it just like all kinds or is there a particular area that's most interesting or enjoyable for you? That's a good question. I like every aspect of it. If you say

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me, do want to go out and sport climb? I would go, yeah. Let's go. If you want to go out bouldering, yeah, let's do it. I'm trying to go out and do this. Yeah. I mean, let's go climb. But to narrow it down, I think bouldering is my first and true love because it's sort of about being able to challenge yourself physically and really push yourself physically just to see what your limit is and learn things about yourself as well. Maybe that's, think I love bouldering for that. And then I also love child climbing as well. Kind of feel like the mental challenge of it.

the overcoming that comes along with being in these ostensibly terrifying and precarious situations, but being able to remain in control and do it and just complete the climb. the fear you get after that is pretty rewarding. you have any particular favourite tag climbing spots that you like to go to? I used to love climbing in the Peak District. It's a type of rock grit stone, and that was my favourite type of climbing.

I love climbing in North Wales. You can climb anywhere, just have a lovely time. You're going to see some amazing things. Or you're exploring interesting movement on the rock, or you just find yourself on this incredible perch belaying your friend. You get to see the most incredible views. think Peak District, Gritstone, that's what I really love. And I miss it. I've moved up to Scotland. There's a distinct lack of grit around.

Have you been out try climbing in Scotland yet or is that something you're kind of looking to explore? Something I'm looking to explore. I've not had a chance yet. I've actually only lived here like three months now. So between trying to organize my life and house and the new job and I don't know how many storms have happened since I moved to Scotland. It's been great. There's a crazy amount of storms going on. I've just not had the chance. Yeah. It does get better, the weather I promise, soon.

It will get better. Well, we said it was like a good amount of snow in the mountains. The other weekend I managed to go out and do some winter climbing. Nice. So I've done like a little bit in the past, but this was like my first time doing a proper lead on something in winter conditions. So that was really cool. Like getting the crampons on, the axes out. It's just great. This is brilliant. Yeah. And is that something you think you'll maybe do a bit more of now that you're up here in Scotland? Definitely. This is part of the reason.

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One of many reasons I moved to Scotland was to be near mountains to be able to like do this cool stuff to go out and do the winter climbing. Like be able to vomit to one of those epic mountains that are not very far away and just go have an amazing day. Like don't have to do anything particularly difficult. Just go and have a great day, you know. Could you tell us a bit about Refugees Rock? For sure. Refugees Rock is this free climbing session.

we put on, well, I say we, it when I worked for the climbing hangar back in Liverpool and that's where it originated. And we had this local charity Asylum Link and they have like an outreach program for people who are going through this asylum seeking process. These people don't have much in the way of money to do anything. So this charity Asylum Link have outreach programs to get these people out.

do things and to look after their mental health. So they do things like beach cleanups, they go plant trees, bike rides, they've got an allotment where they grow vegetables and stuff like that. One of the people, Emma, her name was, was in climbing in South Liverpool, climbing Haringey, and said, what if we got a session running once a month for the group? It was something that everyone was really keen to get going.

Of course, they get three sessions, people come in once a month and get to climb, just get to climb, experience the joy of climbing. What is it like at those sessions? What's the kind of feel? How do people feel about experiencing climbing? Is it the first time for them or maybe do some people come with some kind of knowledge of climbing? It's a mix actually. Yeah, there's a couple who would have like actual like mountaineering experience, outdoor experience.

And then they've like had to flee to this country and then like opportunities dwindle because you can't do anything. can't go anywhere. You've got no money. So yeah, there's that side of it. And then there's people who are totally brand new to it as well. And the sessions themselves, I guess for the new people, it's more like there can be a language barrier as well. So there's a lot of from like, seem intimidated almost or like nervous. I guess nervous is a better word to use there.

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which is understandable, nervous, sort of at this kind of strange place. I'm flying around on the walls telling you, come and do this. So it does nerves at first. And then it's like a couple of sessions in, everyone's just having a time with their lives. Everyone's smiling and laughing. Everyone's making friends with each other. Yeah, it's wonderful. In your experience, what kind of impact do these sessions have on the people that come?

If I was to speak from personal experience and the impact it's had on me, it's been absolutely like life-changing. It feels like some of the most, say work, some of the most incredible thing I've ever done to be able to help people do something like that and get to experience people also like experience and joy and making connections and making friends and seeing them smile and laugh. It's so important. It's,

And that's only from my side, you know, to speak for other people. mean, I'd hate to put words in people's mouths, but I think it's probably changed their lives as well. You know, it's, it really has. Yeah. Why do you think that climbing has this potential to be such a powerful tool? Obviously you said both for yourself and for the people attending as well. It is something that does have an impact on them. What do you think it is about climbing in particular that means that it has this potential? I think when I ask anyone why they...

I don't think I've ever heard anyone put it into words the way I feel about it. So it's like, I think you just kind of feel it. And there's this kind of understanding that we're all feeling the same thing and we can't really appropriately put it into words, you know? That's just something about it, isn't it? Like, I can't accurately describe it. I couldn't put it into words for you.

We could just go and climb some rocks and be together, you know? And alongside that, it's not this kind of lonely thing where you're off climbing a mountain on your own or there's just two of you. With the indoor climbing, the groups that we have, there's this real sense of community. And I know people in the Refugees Rock group have described it as having the sense of belonging and community as well, you know, that's so important.

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That's a great point, Nufro, as much as I obviously talk about climbing a lot on this podcast and speak to lots of different people, we are all trying to describe something that is really difficult to put into words. It's a very physical experience that you're having on the rock. But then at the same time, the sense of community is such a big part of it as well. Refugees Rock obviously provides access to rock climbing for a specific group of people who probably wouldn't be able to access the sport otherwise. Do you think that that's something that is important to try and do in climbing to improve access to the sport?

I think definitely, like, I want everybody to be involved and I want everybody to be experiencing this thing that I can't put into words and I just, to experience true joy and get out there and enjoy the majesty of nature as well. Get out there with your friends, have an amazing time, smile, laugh. Yeah. To get as many people doing that. You can get everyone in the world just having a really lovely time with each other.

then I think we've solved all the problems then. Yeah. Okay. So climbing is the answer to everything I think is what we're getting to here. That makes sense. I noticed when I was looking at the website for Refugees Rock that there are lots of different kind of groups across the country. To top me head, we've got 11 groups drawn in across the country. Liverpool is where it originated. In Scotland, there's one in Edinburgh. Almost I think all the climbing hangars have them like in Plymouth, Swansea, Exeter, Reading. They're all going to want this. Bristol, the climbing academy.

have a group room there. I've been trying to, well, get myself established, set up in Glasgow, sort my life out first. And I feel a bit like quite sorted now. I'm going to try and get the group room in Glasgow as well. As for how people can support it, I guess you could like ask for donations and be like, yeah, give us some money because it's going to go to a good cause. We try and pay for people's bus first. So if people can't afford to even

get to the sessions, we'll pay for bus fares. A lot of money will go towards paying for trips as well. we can give a big group access to the outdoors. We took a look at earlier in 2024, took a big group out to Wales, made a film, amazing, great experience. So you could donate. The Refugees Rock is currently under application trying to become a registered charity.

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So donating money will become actually a bit easier than it is now, rather than just turning up and putting a few coins in a charity bucket or something. If you know you've got like a local group, have like a bake sale or something like that, just like, just give us money that we can put to a good cause, you know what I mean? But also you can get involved with the groups. get like, we need volunteers. People can offer lifts, people that help run the sessions and stuff like that.

and run warmups, just friendly faces from the community to help people integrate. Before, as I described, people have nerves in the first sessions to have people who come to your climbing center quite regularly and are used to it, to have that kind of experience and pass on to newcomers. That's pretty invaluable, actually. Yeah, those are the ways to get involved. So do it, because it's amazing. It's the best work I've ever done. And you mentioned the film there. Could you tell us a little bit more about that?

We made a film for Kendall Mountain Film Festival. It was crazy. We took the group. spent, God, I can't even remember now. It's like, as I say, time doesn't mean anything to me. So what did we do? We went for a walk up a big hill, big mountain in Wales. And then we came back down and we stayed in this climbing mountaineers' hut. I've got to shout out the Vagabonds Club here for donating the hut to us.

stayed in hut in Clamberus Pass in Wales. And then we went to, God I've got to stay this light now, Little Trovan and we got them doing some rope climbing on there as well. Yeah, we made a film about it and recorded the whole thing and then the film was great. But being there and getting to see everyone's faces light up and...

Everyone's having a time of their lives, all taking pictures, all taking selfies on the mountains. It was just amazing. One of the best times ever. was just amazing. Yeah. That sounds great. And is that available to watch online anywhere or is it not now that the festival's over? I'm not 100 % sure on that, you know. I can have a look if you want and put it in the notes. Going back to your climbing, obviously you've mentioned that you've just gone through this big move and you're living in Scotland now, but do you have any kind of goals that you're working on or maybe project? So, I left Liverpool in a move here in like

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Beginning of November it was, because I've lived in Liverpool all my life. When I told everyone I was leaving Liverpool, everyone was like, we need to spend time with Ben before he disappears because we may not see him for a while, which is really nice. It did mean a lot of exercise, kind of went by the way. And there was a lot of like going out and having a nice time with people. And then there was a good few months of like trying to settle into Glasgow as well. I couldn't really put as much time into climbing.

I wanted, I was just doing a little bit. currently my goal is to just like find some kind of fitness again, actually. Just and get out, enjoy it. I sort of made a bit of a resolution to myself to climb with people more. Early 2024, I was training quite a lot for a trip and that meant spending quite a lot of time on my own, which is fine. I don't mind spending time on my own and training. It's cool.

But I also would like the opposite of that. want to climb with people and I want to have friends. I want to see people climb with them, experience climbing with people, not just trying to achieve this. Trying to hit this number according to how difficult the rock was for one person to climb when they were the first person to climb it. know what I mean? This arbitrary number that they put on, be like, right, I'm going to train to climb this number. So I've done that. I'd like to just.

climb for a bit more fun now. I like that. I feel like that really ties back into what we were saying about community. Obviously climbing is a great personal challenge in lots of ways, but it's also a really good way to connect with people and build community. And sometimes that does take a bit of conscious effort, not to just go by yourself and train, but also to make sure that you're doing it with people as well. Yeah, for sure. And what do you get up to outside of climbing? Do you have any other hobbies or interests? I'm trying to find, get myself established here.

I playing chess. Just before I left Liverpool, I was toying with the idea of joining a chess club. There's chess night that ran locally. So I'll probably try and look into something like that. I really enjoy playing just games, board games as well. So I'd like to find a board game cafe. In fact, I have already got one targeted and I'm going to like see if they've got the kind of, you know, come along and game night, maybe play some Dungeons and Dragons with them. Bit of a geek. I do enjoy Dungeons and Dragons as well.

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I listen to Dungeons and Dragons podcasts. Let's just get that out there. Very cool. Thanks. I don't think so. But as far as physical, I'm mainly just climbing. I'm getting a bit more into walking as well and hiking, I guess. If I was going to hike, I'm going to go hike to a climb, but now I'm hiking for the sake of hiking as well. Maybe that's just an age thing, though. I don't know.

I think that's because I recently got into hiking and there's no other explanation than I hit my thirties and that's just what happens to you. Like I know to living in Scotland, I think it's inevitable that you're going to start being someone who backs my mirrors. Like it's just part of life here. Yeah. They are like stunningly beautiful. it's, you don't have to just climb just to see these amazing things. So yeah, but hiking, but yeah, that's me. Bit of reading as well. Need as much as you can. Yeah. Have you read anything good lately? I'm in the middle of reading a book called Ishmael.

Um, can't remember the author's name, but it's about this talking gorilla that wants to save the world, save humanity from itself. That's pretty interesting. Yeah. That sounds great. Okay. I'm going to have to check that out. I yes, you should. It's, it's, is. I'm enjoying it. And if people want to find out more about refugees rock and also you're climbing and things like that. And where should they go to find that out? Refugees rock Instagram. There's the website now, refugees rock.

If you wanted to know more about me, I'm also on Instagram, Ben Fitsy Babe, I think it is. I need to change that. I felt the pain as you said that in your voice. I'm not going have to say it out loud, you know. It's like an old high school joke and I thought, yeah, I'll just stick with that. That was kind of funny. And now it's not very professional, it? But I don't think I'm a, I'm not a particularly professional person.

I feel like that's fine. Well, thank you so much for coming on to the podcast. It's been great to hear about your climbing and your work with Refugees Rock as well. And yeah, thanks for coming on. My pleasure. Thanks, Melanie. You've been listening to the Not Your Typical Climber podcast. I'm your host, . If you've enjoyed the show, please take the time to leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts. It really helps us out. You can also follow us on Instagram at Not Your Typical Climber and our website is notyourtypicalclimberpodcast.uk.

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This is an independently recorded and produced podcast.